Joe Goldberg came from a place of grief
Joe Goldberg is a cultural phenomenon.
What inspired you to start writing about him, and where did he come from?
It’s always the strangest thing because the short answer is: My dad died.
He’s sitting there dying and is like, “Don’t put me on Facebook.”
But it was 2013 when it was all [happening], and I remember learning what Instagram was.
It was a combination of things, but above all, it was experiencing that level of loneliness.
That loneliness is in Joe and was part of the tragedy for him.
That’s home to him, so that’s what he’s always going to go back to.
Then, on the other side of it, [it’s] wanting to have a laugh.
My mom and my aunts were reading it.
Joe made me laugh.
It was like, “This is a safe, good place to just imagine.”
The entertaining part of it was the main thing.
It was my own little therapy project.
That’s when I get tongue-tied because I’m still like, “Oh my God.”
To come out of a place of loss like that, I’m so sorry for that.
I lost my mom a few years ago, so I understand the feelings you’re describing.
To put your grief into a book that’s incredible.
What do readers need to know about the next chapter of his journey?
I loved putting Joe in the belly of the beast.
He will find a way to take issue with everyone around him nobody’s perfect except Joe.
It’s a new Joe in this book.
He went through the pandemic like we all did.
I liked realizing that he spent a lot of time alone.
He did kidnap someone during the pandemic, because he’s Joe.
Now he’s a writer.
That’s even scarier.
I also loved that conflict because he’s so all-or-nothing.
He’s got this issue now.
Embracing Joe Goldberg’s penchant for murder
You have to live with Joe Goldberg every day.
Do you ever wish you could get rid of him?
It’s why we have these pillows.
I have a lot of “Waiting for Guffman” stuff.
I have “Veep” things that I bought when they were selling them at an auction.
Every book I read, [I’m] imagining him reading it.
Other times, when I’m about to write, I get very grumpy and very mean.
It’s almost like PMS, and I’m like, “Okay, here it comes.”
I think I’m in a bad mood “What is this mood?”
and then it’s like, “Oh, I just need to do some Joe.”
It’s weird for 10 years to develop [this character].
If there’s one thing you’re able to say about Joe, he does believe in himself.
You write a character who murders a lot of people.
What’s it like writing about murder and coming up with all of the terrible things that he does?
I’ve always loved reading stories with murder in them.
Without giving things away, I love the conflict that he’s so good at [murder].
It’s fiction, so he’s gotten away with a lot.
I love his outrage at other people writing about things that he’s actually done.
In this book, you see his past.
It’s always there in every book.
His past is catching up with him a little bit.
Flipping the romantic comedy genre in You
Your books skewer the romantic comedy genre.
What inspired you to take that genre and turn it on its head?
I love romantic comedies so much.
Right before I wrote this book, I watched “Pitch Perfect” maybe a thousand times.
Because of everything going on with my dad and my life, I’ve been out of it.
I thought a lot of the songs in [the film] were new.
I couldn’t believe it was like, “Oh, that’s a cover.
I love [the romantic comedy] beats of that story.
What if the guy doesn’t take no for an answer …?”
The man has to hear the word “no” and refuse to accept it.
It’s like, “And you wonder why everyone’s f***ed up?”
I’m inverting those stories.
I do that naturally in my head.
“You’ve Got Mail” is one of my favorite all-time movies.
She’s like, “I wanted it to be you.”
Well, what if she didn’t?
That’s why I love your stories.
You pick things out that we accept as normal that are actually quite creepy.
Love is a convenient fantasy in storytelling.
We love when people fall in love, and that’s what it turns out to be.
But what if it’s not a two-way street?
How did it feel to see Penn Badgley take over your character?
Oh my God, wonderful.
I remember early on watching him on a little tape they sent and getting chills.
I was so impressed.
In that way, it was a thrill because it’s a hard thing to pull off.
It’s one thing when you’re reading a book; they’re such different experiences.
You’re in someone’s head; you’re in Joe’s head.
That could be him."
To see Penn allow to have the story work this way, where you’re actually watching Joe …
He nails it over and over.
It’s clear that everyone else thinks so too.
He’s got that dangerous quality where he’s lovable but also bad.
That’s the scary key.
What’s it been like watching the story take on this whole other life?
It’s so exciting to see people play with a toy and have their own world.
Who doesn’t like a multiverse?
It’s also a great feeling [having created] this character who is that fun to play with.
Are you excited to see how the show ends, or are you nervous?
It’s taking me back to the first season when they started doing all the casting.
I’m looking at Elizabeth Lail and Shay Mitchell.
They’re all “out of control” good.
But in the show, I remember saying, “Guys, does he have to kill everyone?
Look at this cast.”
They’re like, “It’s your f***ing book.
This is what he does.”
It’s that feeling where I feel spoiled.
In this day and age, to get five seasons, I’m completely grateful.
On the one hand, I know that’s amazing and great.
It’s that thing when you see people so excited for something.
How did those experiences play into you writing “You”?
Oh God, so much.
With journalism to start, I loved being edited.
They were like, “You’re going to write this 300-word review of the show.”
I’m like, “300 words?”
I like journalism, especially back then.
It was weekly and it felt intense.
To this day, I do that with my writing.
I love television and I love the entertainment, the way the story moves and moves.
I love what he’s doing with the words.
When someone is that focused, they do bring a humanity, their own take on it.
My very first creative job was at Conan O’Brien, where I was a script intern.
That was every day, and I did not last long because that gave me a nervous breakdown.
I always wanted to write books because I like how long you have to rewrite everything.
It’s why I’m very bad at Twitter.
I like to rewrite.
I like to walk away from it, go look back.
What do you hope fans will take away from your new book?
I hope that if they’re reading and writing, they’ll read and write more.
It’s a lesson of so many books.
“For You and Only You: A Joe Goldberg Novel” is out now from Random House.
This interview has been edited for clarity.
